In detail: do-it-yourself repair of a Kia carnival injector from a real master for the site my.housecope.com.
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One Vagovets told me that we don't prescribe them at all. And I myself have met on cars and bmws that the numbers and letters change themselves, after what I prescribed.
This post has been edited hash – 23.11.2014 – 23:49
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Yura, about the corridor, it doesn't seem to fit. Screen from the same Bongo (his native nozzles). There, in the same place, in different injectors, there can be any (?) Letter or number. For example, 7th behind 9, A, P, 9 (number, beginning of alphabet, and end of alphabet). Or am I flat-minded, don't I understand?
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Ssang Yong Rexton. Didn't start. Sentenced the nozzle. Since the rest were replaced, we decided to change one. The owner ordered from the sample taken.
In general, the nozzle came and he arrived, as luck would have it, at a not very opportune moment.
I chose the time. I changed it. Everything is running. And only when trying to register, I realized that the nozzle was not the same. And it is unpacked and installed. It is unlikely that they will accept it back.
Before that, only I2C came across, and this I3C. Therefore, I did not pay attention when I rewrote the code before installing it.
It seems, formally, what was brought, then put. I didn't order the spare part. But, all the same, it’s not clever. I took it only for diagnostics.
The car starts up, works. Only on the XX does it noticeably shake. Naturally, the nozzle is not prescribed.
It seems that I wrote about “cleanliness mistakes”.
This post has been edited coon – 29.08.2015 – 18:38
Club of owners and fans of Kia Carnival
Message kuzmich »25 Oct 2015, 10:46
Do not be afraid of common rail injectors
Although modern diesel engines are becoming more and more complex, the Common Rail system seems to be technically even simpler than the previously used injection pump systems. Ultimately, the Common Rail system completely replaced competing solutions from the market, for example, with unit injectors.
Several types of Common Rail systems are used in passenger cars. Simplistically, they can be divided into two types (electromagnetic and piezoelectric) and four manufacturers (Bosch, Continental, Delphi, Denso). Bosch, Delphi and Denso are renowned manufacturers of automotive electronics. Bosch has been developing injection systems at the very beginning of the last century. Delphi bought diesel injection technology from Lucas. The Japanese Denso has gained experience working with Bosch and Magnetti Mareli. Continental acquired Siemens and VDO, becoming the main competitor of German Bosch. The injectors of this company have been marked with the Continental emblem for about a year, previously they bore the Siemens logo.
The most versatile is the market leader Bosch, which produces both types of injectors: electromagnetic and piezoelectric.On a much smaller scale, both types of injectors are produced by Delphi and Denso. Continental (Siemens) is exclusively limited to piezoelectric technology.
Each sandpiper praises its swamp.
In advertising brochures, each manufacturer praises their product as the best solution. As you may have guessed, in practice, many of them often have a number of shortcomings. The simplest design is provided by Bosch electromagnetic injectors. Repair of German injectors is not difficult. Delphi wanted to go further and developed a much more sophisticated control system for its solenoid injectors. As a result, his product turned out to be the most sensitive to fuel quality and, unfortunately, not very durable. Among the electromagnetic injectors, Denso is considered the most reliable, but there are difficulties with the availability of spare parts for repair. The most balanced are the piezoelectric injectors designed by Bosch and Siemens (Continental), and also partly by Denso. The injectors are similar to each other, both technically and in terms of reliability. Only Delphi stands out from this group, whose piezo injectors were reputed to be less hardy throughout the entire time.
Whose injectors can be repaired?
From the point of view of the possibility of repair, the most preferable are turbodiesels with classic Common Rail injection from Bosch. Almost all specialized centers can handle the restoration of this type of injectors. But the end result depends on the diligence and honesty of the master. Delphi solenoid injectors are also repairable, but require replacement of the tip to be able to code the injector after repair. This increases the cost of repairs, but without coding, the engine will run intermittently. Denso solenoid injectors are among the most durable, but repairs are only possible with spare parts available. But with this, just not all is well.
Delphi and Bosch piezo injectors are considered non-repairable. In the case of Siemens (Continental), injection tips have appeared, allowing you to change the size, which allows you to restore the injector to work. However, this only applies to some models with PSA 2.0 HDI 16V engines. Various modifications of this turbodiesel are used in Ford Mondeo IV, Focus, Galaxy, S-Max and Volvo S40, S60 cars.
The advantages and disadvantages of injectors should be known even at the stage of choosing a car. Considering the risk of injector failure, two models with the same engine should be avoided like fire: Ford Mondeo III 2.0 TDCi and Jaguar X-Type 2.0 d. The injectors of the Mercedes E250 CDI W212 of the beginning of production also had congenital defects. The rest of the cars with Delphi injectors raises no objections. Some motors allow the use of injectors from different manufacturers. For example, the 1.6 HDi / TDCi engine had four different types of injection systems, with Bosch being the cheapest to maintain. The situation is similar with 2.0 HDi. Siemens (Continental) injectors can be refurbished, but Bosch piezo injectors cannot.
What you need to know about Common Rail injectors.
Bosch electromagnetic injectors.
They are disassembled and relatively easy to repair. The cost of restoring one injector is about $ 100-150 per piece. They can withstand 200,000 km. In Opel's 1.9 CDTi and Fiat's 1.9 JTD, the injectors are capable of surviving up to 500,000 km. The price of a new nozzle is about $ 250-300 per piece.
Alfa Romeo 159 2.0 JTDM, Fiat Punto 1.3 JTD, Kia CEE'D 1.6 CRDi, Mercedes C 220 CDI W202, Opel Vectra C 1.9 CDTI, Renault Laguna II 1.9 DCI, Volvo V70 D5, BMW 320d E46.
Delphi electromagnetic injectors.
Compared to Bosch, Delphi injectors are much more sensitive to fuel quality. They are slightly more expensive to repair - around $ 150-200 apiece - due to the need to code with a new tip. Average service life is 150,000 km. The cost of a new nozzle is about $ 250.
Dacia Logan 1.5 DCI, Ford Focus 1.8 TDCi, Renault Megane II 1.5 DCI Nissan Almera 1.5 DCI, Hyundai Santa Fe 2.2 CRDi, Kia Carnival 2.9 CRDi, Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCi III.
Denso electromagnetic injectors.
Denso electromagnetic injectors are considered to be of the highest quality. Until recently, there was a shortage of spare parts, but nowadays most of them can be restored. The cost of repairs is about $ 150-250 per unit. The price of a new nozzle is about $ 450.
Mazda 6 2.0 CD, Nissan Pathfinder 2.5 DCI, Opel Corsa 1.7 CDTI, Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 DI-D II, Toyota Avensis 2.0 D-4D.
Continental piezoelectric injectors (Siemens).
Previously offered under the Siemens name, and now Continental. They are durable, but until recently were considered non-repairable. Today, spare parts appear and some workshops take on repairs. The resource of injectors is more than 200,000 km. The cost of a new nozzle is about $ 350.
Citroen C5 2.0 HDi II, Mercedes C220 CDI W204, Volvo V50 D4, Peugeot 207 1.4 HDi.
Bosch piezoelectric injectors.
They are found in many modern cars and are structurally very similar to Continental injectors. They also have a similar resource - more than 200,000 km. Unfortunately, they are not repairable. New ones cost about $ 300.
Audi A6 3.0 TDI, BMW 320d E90, Nissan Qashqai 2.0 DCI, Skoda Octavia III 2.0 TDI.
Denso piezoelectric injectors.
They are quite reliable, but not collapsible and therefore cannot be repaired. They are used in a small number of cars. Most often they can be found in Lexus and new Toyota models. The cost of a new nozzle is about $ 500.
Lexus IS 2.2D, Toyota RAV-4 IV 2.2 D-4D.
Piezoelectric injectors - Delphi.
The market is limited. Debuted with the Mercedes E250 CDI BlueEFFICIENCY in 2009 and started causing problems immediately. Later the design of the nozzles was changed.
Mercedes E 250 CDI Bluefficiency.
Common Rail injection system malfunctions.
As a rule, the Common Rail injection system is able to hold out more than 200,000 km without any problems. But it all depends not only on the design, but also on the operating conditions. The least reliable and most sensitive to fuel quality are Delphi injectors. The first problems sometimes appear already at 140,000 km. The most hardy is Denso's products. Piezoelectric injectors from Bosch and Continental (Siemens), as a rule, can withstand more than 200,000 km. Bosch electromagnetic injectors serve the same amount of time.
Typical symptoms of common rail injection system malfunctions:
- uneven engine operation;
- increased fuel consumption;
However, common rail malfunctions are not always the result of damaged injectors. The defect could overtake the high pressure pump, fuel pressure regulator and other sensors. In any case, the parameters of the injection system give an almost accurate answer to the question of the condition of the injectors.
It is possible to "examine" the system using a special diagnostic computer using the pressure parameters and the so-called "injector correction". Another easy way is to determine the amount of overflow. It is also possible to remove the nozzles for inspection or testing at the stand. Unfortunately, in some cases it is impossible to remove the nozzle - it sticks.
Technical capabilities allow restoring all electromagnetic injectors (Bosch, Delphi, Denso). Limitations may be imposed by the availability of spare parts: valves, tips, coils, housings, etc.). In the case of Bosch, there are no problems. Slightly worse with Delphi components. And for Denso, the original components simply do not exist. There are only a small percentage of unofficial substitutes. The cost of refurbishment depends on the number of replaced elements and the manufacturer of the injectors. For Bosch, the approximate amount will be from $ 50 to $ 150 per piece, and for Delphi and Denso - up to $ 200-250.
Complete restoration of Bosch, Delphi and Denso piezoelectric injectors is not possible. All that is permissible is to remove the nozzle tip, rinse it in an ultrasonic apparatus and check the operation of the nozzle on the bench.
The situation is slightly better with some Continental (Siemens) injectors. Spare parts are available for individual injectors. The restoration cost is about $ 150.
Disassembly and repair of injectors should be carried out only by specialists of specialized services. Dismantling the nozzle itself requires a special tool. In addition, before and after parsing, it is necessary to check the operation of the injector on a special stand.
- checking the nozzle at the stand;
- dismantling and flushing of elements;
- troubleshooting and replacement of necessary parts;
- adjustment and assembly of the nozzle;
- measurement of parameters after assembly;
- assignment of an individual code, taking into account the characteristics of a particular instance (for some injectors).
Only after the regeneration process and the elimination of related malfunctions (for example, sediment in the tank or chips from the pump in the system), the nozzles can be installed back into place.Along the way, the fuel filter and copper washers under the injectors must be replaced.
Kind people, please tell me if there are real specialists in our city who can repair, restore or clean Delphi diesel injectors. I have a KIA Carnival, a CRDI turbodiesel with a volume of 2.9, I showed the craftsmen that along the embankment near the Druzhba park just above the Gazprom gas station along Akhunbaev. They said that Delphi injectors on Kia cannot be repaired (such as disposable), only replacement. Please tell me where you can find new or used injectors, is it possible to restore them at all? In short, the car starts up on a cold one with the help of Ether. Kick-ass in one word. unsubscribe and help kind people with advice!
In short, the car starts up on a cold one with the help of Ether.
how was the malfunction of the injectors determined? a similar start of a cold engine will occur when the cylinder-piston group is worn out due to insufficient compression.
I have a KIA Carnival, CRDI turbodiesel volume 2.9,
what year
2 or 3 carnival?
Kia carnival and Hyundai cockroach the same nozzles go
Post has been edited by diezelist: 26 January 2013 - 21:46
You can find new ones using the search.
A lot of users are involved in the delivery of spare parts.
Just ask - you will not be answered properly.
Post has been editedYuris: 26 January 2013 - 22:00
Thank you kind people. I have a Kia Carnival 2, 2002 release. There, a master named Danila made a diagnosis and found that there was no pressure in nozzles 2 and 3. They said that the engine is working properly; the whole problem is only in the injectors.
Sahalinder
How is the pressure in the nozzle?
Is that what he said?
on Delphi (4x500) there was a factory defect that was eliminated on Delphi (4x700). That is, on the first, in addition to repairing the injectors, it may be necessary to replace one more part .. On the second, only the repair of the injectors. Both nozzle options are available. The math is as follows: repair of the 1st injector $ 230 + $ 14 diagnostics of each. There have been no warranty returns yet. So the system is repairable.
The math is this: repair of the 1st injector 230
and the new ones are almost the same, the current price is in oiro
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Hokkaido
What do you mean by diagnostics? Poke a scanner? To measure the return flow rate? Carry out a run on the stand in all load modes with the assignment of the C2I code?
The CRI-PC stand from Hartridge, the only one who assigns codes after the test run, is worth a hundred kiloeroyro new. In fact, there was a philanthropist who, at his own peril and risk, smacked the loot and bought this equipment instead of a new zhip under the railway station. poo If so, then not all is lost for this country. if there are such people. I would like to see him and shake his hand from the heart. Sincerely.
If you are a practicing specialist. or a supplier for diesel parts, I think it makes sense to meet. Combine efforts somehow. I guarantee productive cooperation. There are enough patients.
Hartridge costs more than 100 tons. To the cost you need to add the training of craftsmen, in Europe. etc. Plus a scanner that understands Delphi from and to, costs 7000 euros! In total, we easily pass over 200.
C-code! I'll tell you a secret now: this code is not required for 4x500 !! No need to argue, this is from personal experience. This code is given for the firmware, and I have never flashed my brains after installation. There is one secret here that is available only to specialists trained in Delphi. But Fords cannot live without him.
About diagnostics: there is another nuance that was fully described in the Delphi telegram, 4 years ago. I will not deliberately describe everything, we will not interrupt the work of local craftsmen.
I do not work or sell spare parts. It used to be, now it is not. Try to call ooo corundum, they were kind of going to buy Hartridges
The math is this: repair of the 1st injector 230
and the new ones are almost the same, the current price is in oiro
How much guarantee will you give for 230 EUR injectors? 6 month or 1 year! The beauty of repairs lies in the extended warranty! Are you a delphi official? In your case, the guarantee can only be for a factory defect. Or is it somehow different?
How much guarantee will you give for 230 EUR injectors? 6 month or 1 year! The beauty of repairs lies in the extended warranty! Are you a delphi official? In your case, the guarantee can only be for a factory defect. Or is it somehow different?
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Hokkaido
Of course, colleague, I will not argue with you, because you definitely own the subject. Moreover, I still ask for a meeting. Meet and shake hands. A person with REAL knowledge, I would like to know by sight.
Concerning corundum. I worked for this company as a heavy equipment repair engineer for a while. I will not say bad things, because about the deceased it is either good or nothing. I won't say anything good either, because there is nothing. The level of the collective farm MTS of the last century. They are in a deep systemic crisis right now, from which they will not be scratched out, I think. there are no prerequisites. All corporate clients refused them, because the office is not able to provide quality - there is not enough knowledge and there is no equipment. To invest in equipment is a toad strangling, to invest in personnel training is again the same. I kicked them for four months for the purchase of a diesel stand for unit injectors, the same for the purchase of diagnostics for trucks. In the dry residue. did not see anything at all. I spat, and right now I'm moving without them. so right now they are not up to the Hartridges, God forbid that the last cowards do not fall.
On a subject, for the audience. I am forming a package for ordering Delphi multiplier valves. We need at least three cars with broken forces. The cost of repairing one injector is two hundred dollars including related work. I say right away that with the existing quality of kerosene, I can give a month for testing, and then the Lord will put it on my soul. Our heating oil will not digest any delfay instead of solarium. and I am not able to exclude this MAIN factor.
Post has been edited by edlee: 29 January 2013 - 09:15
How much guarantee will you give for 230 EUR injectors? 6 month or 1 year! The beauty of repairs lies in the extended warranty! Are you a delphi official? In your case, the guarantee can only be for a factory defect. Or is it somehow different?
So you must be a monopolist! $ 300 and 2 years warranty !? It's powerful. How do you provide a guarantee? Are you sending the broken line back to Germany?
It seemed to me a company with great prospects. They ride at exhibitions.
Drop your phone, I'll dial you when I’m in Bishkek.
We send the marriage back to Germany
I read Chita and did not understand anything. Where can the car be repaired?
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skriptor
I can take it if everyone refuses. We have the know-how and equipment available. I don’t work for five hundred soms in principle, but. if I don’t give my mind, I won’t take money, no matter how much I’m lying under the car.
skriptor
I can take it if everyone refuses. We have the know-how and equipment available. I don’t work for five hundred soms in principle, but. if I don’t give my mind, I won’t take money, no matter how much I’m lying under the car.
sounds like a challenge
just take Edlia and that's it
Injectors are a relatively new element of fuel systems. Their main purpose is to provide fuel metering and to inject fuel into the working engine cylinders. French-made Delphi elements have proven to be good, but their reputation is slightly tarnished by the fact that motorists periodically have to carry out minor repairs with their own hands.
Delphi are installed exclusively on diesel engines... So, Common Rail fuel systems, which are based on parts of this type, are present in the following cars:
CHEVROLET: CORVETTE STINGRAY;
CITROEN: C3 1.4 HDI, C3 PICASSO;
FORD: TRANSIT, FOCUS 1.8 Tdci, MONDEO 2.0 TDCI, TRANSIT 2.4 EU3;
HYUNDAI: TERRACAN, TRAJET, I20, I30;
LAND ROVER: FREELANDER td5;
MERCEDES BENZ: CLA, E CLASS;
RENAULT: CLIO, CAPTUR, KANGOO, SCENIC;
SSANYONG: REXTON / KYRON / ACTYON / RODIUS / STAVIC CRDI;
Concern Delphi from England has worked out its version of diesel systems, which is based on direct fuel injection. Nozzles of this manufacturer are distinguished by high productivity, increased resource and convenience during repairs.
Regardless of the year of manufacture, they have a similar structure. The body includes:
a hole for draining excess fuel back;
Delphi injector operates in a cyclical manner, with a product life expectancy of at least one billion cycles.
These parts are also installed on injection engines running on gasoline, but they have many differences from diesel ones.
The first is the working pressure characteristics... Gasoline injectors operate at a maximum load of up to 5 atmospheres, while diesel injectors can withstand a higher pressure - from 250 atmospheres and above. Therefore, Delphi is considered to be the most productive, as it is able to give the engine enormous power.
Secondly, the structure of a diesel one is much more complicated than that of a gasoline one. Some parts are very sensitive and must be made from more expensive materials.
Thirdly, these parts for gasoline and diesel engines differ in price. If gasoline can be bought for about 500-1500 rubles, then the cost of diesel injection systems for fuel Common Rail starts at 15 thousand rubles.
Delphi is considered to be one of the most reliable diesel engine designs. However, no detail is everlasting. Malfunctions and breakdowns occur for two main reasons:
Development of a resource (parts are designed for a certain service life - about 150 thousand kilometers, after which they fail).
Use of low quality diesel fuel.
The car owner can independently determine the malfunctions in the work. Symptoms of malfunctions can be considered:
difficulty starting the engine;
noise and extraneous sounds during engine operation;
reduction of vehicle power during acceleration and overtaking;
increased fuel consumption;
black exhaust from the muffler;
If the driver has noticed certain signs of malfunctions, then it is recommended to carry out repairs and restoration in order to prevent further complications with the engine.
In them, only two components can be repaired - this is the valve itself and the sprayer. The creators have provided an easy way to disassemble the element and replace worn parts.
In order for the process of dismantling the nozzles from the motor to go quickly, you need to prepare all the necessary tools in advance. Delphi can have different body diameters (depending on the marking), therefore, a set of spanners will have to be selected in accordance with the dimensions of the product on a specific engine:
a screwdriver with a thin flat blade;
compressed air canister;
some fuel used for lubrication.
Before directly unscrewing these parts, it is necessary to carry out preparatory work. This is necessary in order not to damage the housing and the sensitive atomizer during the dismantling process.
The landing site and the product itself must be cleaned of dirt, fuel and carbon deposits. First, you can clean the dirt with a soft, lint-free cloth, and then proceed with compressed air from a tire pump or spray can.
The fuel line from the cell must be disconnected with the utmost care so as not to damage the line. With a wrench of a suitable size, you can unscrew it a little from the seats, one by one.
After the nozzles have been loosened, it is allowed to unscrew them one by one from the socket. As soon as all products are dismantled, you will need to wipe the landing site again and close the holes in the motor so that dust cannot get inside.
For self-repair, you will need to buy a repair kit for the injector. By the way, this is also an expensive pleasure - a set with a minimum set of spare parts can cost from 3 thousand rubles. However, the cost of a new part is several times higher, so it is more expedient to spend money on a repair kit than on a new product.
Typically, repair kits for Delphi include several items:
rubber sealing rings;
Depending on the needs and purposes of the repair, you can choose not a complete set of spare parts, but only those that are really needed.
The Delphi valve train is slightly different from similar devices from another manufacturer. It contains a spinner as a spray needle.Under the influence of fuel pressure, it rises, then lowers - thereby opening or closing the fuel supply.
The spinner can quickly wear out (since the spraying on it is very sensitive to the quality of the fuel). In addition, the turntable landing saddle quickly breaks. All this makes replacement a mandatory procedure.
