DIY water collector repair

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Good day!
After 2 years after the repair, the problem got out. One of the collector taps, which is almost never used (locked for 11 months a year), a cold water tap, when turning, began to leak from under the butterfly (handle, I don’t know how to do it correctly). If you open - close several times - the flow stops. And so far it flows only in the open state).
The question is - can it be repaired, or what can be done?
I would replace the entire collector, because they put a certain city called TIM. But everything is so cramped there that you will get rid of the figs. Anyway, I can't.
Thanks for the answer.

dmkbox wrote:
The question is - can it be repaired, or what can be done?

somehow I tried to repair such a .. otvodik fell off. easy so.

dmkbox wrote:
The question is - can it be repaired, or what can be done?

dmkbox wrote:
I would replace the entire collector, because they put a certain city called TIM.

they asked themselves and answered

Plumbing works Moscow and the region

Well, I didn’t write that changing is very problematic without dismantling the wall.
I forgot to write - ball valves.
Therefore, it is interesting - is it possible or in principle impossible to fix it?

give a photo where is this collector hidden

In general, the Russians are just delighted with you. Nowhere else is there such a parallel wiring as you create in your homes. I've seen plumbing - France, Ireland, Spain, England. There is no parallel water supply. It feels like - you (this is me to plumbers - colleagues) just breed people to grandmothers. Pressure gauges, automatic drains, Sediments, reducers, collectors. ..and other set of space weapons. There is such an expression from the classics - Woe from wit. I sympathize with your customers. Here is another confirmation - a valve on the manifold that has not been touched for 11 months. I am sure this is not the limit.
You are building Star Wars - remotes from ships for ordinary apartments. Do grandmothers even know how to use them - your android colliders?
Parallel wiring justifies itself only in the case of underfloor heating and underfloor heating .. There - collectors are needed to concentrate adjustments in one place - compactly ..
My aunt - now an acquaintance - is converting a house near London to one of the Moscow bankers. So he annoyed the plumbers with his collectors that they work there. But - in London - there are no collector parallel wiring. Live easier ..

If a major overhaul is being undertaken, or a bathroom is being built from scratch, then it makes sense to take a closer look at the collector water distribution.

Installation can be carried out both open and hidden.

1. Convenient
All communications are in one place. For example, there is no need to crawl under the sink to turn off the mixer in which the valve box is faulty.
It is especially important if there is only one pregnant woman or children left at home. It will be enough to turn off the desired tap on the manifold.

2. Reliable
From the collector to the consumer there is one solid pipe without connections. In the case of a high-quality pipe, leakage in the wired walls is excluded. (although if, with the tee wiring, the connections were, for example, made of polypropylene (soldering), then the leak is also impossible)

3. Absence of pressure drops
In the case of manifold wiring and the presence of operating pressure, there are practically no pressure drops when using, for example, two sinks at the same time. Moreover, water supply can be limited to each consumer. True, if a manifold with valve taps is installed.
You can limit the water supply, for example, to the toilet, if the pressure in the system is too low. And the fact that the toilet will be recruited 2 or 3 times slower than when fully opened will not affect anything.

1. Expensive
Dilute water with the help of collectors is an order of magnitude more expensive in terms of material and work if you invite a master. It is worth adding here the cost of the collectors themselves, the additional footage of pipes and, most importantly, it is necessary to provide a place where all this is to be placed.

This is how the collector wiring looks like in the new bathroom of a private house. The pipes were subsequently sewn up.

This manifold has shut-off valves for each branch. Non-collapsible ball valves are installed on the branches.
Under the word "not collapsible" it should be understood that in case of failure one of the taps, they cannot be replaced individually, the entire collector changes. (Or part of it from thread to thread)

In these collectors, we only have the option to open or close a branch. Adjustment with such taps will not lead to anything good.

What can not be said about manifolds with valve and control valves.

Collectors are available for 2,3 and 4 outlets. I have never met anyone else. Collectors are assembled from those available on the market for the required number of outputs. For example, as in the following photo, a 5-outlet collector is being compiled. 3 + 2

They are connected to each other by means of a thread. Sealed either with a rubber gasket as in the photo above (there is a rubber O-ring at the end of the thread) - or other seals, such as flax.

Collectors can be different. With and without shut-off valves. With valve and ball valves. For thread or Eurocone.

It does not matter at all which pipe you use to distribute the water, the collector will fit all types of pipes.

The most important thing is not to save money when buying a collector. If funds are limited, then give preference to tee wiring than to buy low-quality collectors, which may subsequently leak.

Example of a tired manifold on compression fittings:

Looking from right to left, you can see a small hole in the second bend and between the third and fourth.

The manifold was replaced with a new, two-part composite with crimping Euro-cones for MP.

Before laying pipes from the manifold, it is worth carefully considering that the pipes do not pass in places where it is potentially possible to drill walls and floors to install walls or appliances.

Here, on the example of this picture, you can see that the pipes are not all nearby, but separated by groups. These are the places on the wall where the installation for the wall-hung toilet is to be fixed.

Subsequently, during the final finishing, the collector is hidden in a special hatch. Hidden from prying eyes. (another object)

Let's see what is hidden behind this door:

If you look closer, you can see that each branch is signed and can be closed at any time. Convenient access to taps, filters and meters.

Here communications are hidden in the wall behind the toilet. The hatch is clearly visible.

In this case, the hatch is completely invisible:

But if you know how to open, then we get convenient access to all communications.

As you can see from the photo and description, it should be concluded: if you are planning expensive or major repairs and funds allow, then the collector wiring will be the best friend when servicing your communications.

It should be noted that in addition to metal collectors, there are also plastic ones. For example from polypropylene:

I repeat from article to article, it is impossible to separately plan the water supply of a private house, outside the house (external water supply with a water supply source) and inside the house (internal water supply at home). Both systems are interdependent and they must be planned (designed) together. Why, you will understand from this article.

The collector wiring of the water supply system, which I have repeatedly written about in the articles Collector circuit of water supply and Methods for wiring the water supply system in an apartment, is well demonstrated in the figure.

On it, we see one pipe through which water enters the system. From a central point, water is distributed to consumers.The central point of the circuit, which is the point of distribution of the flow to consumers, is the collector.

The collector is a special device designed to evenly distribute the flow to consumers. Technically, the collector has one or two inputs (inputs) and several taps (outputs).

It is important to note that the installation of regulating or shut-off valves on the collector outlets is not mandatory, but only complements the collector's capabilities and allows you to shut off the water during the repair.

Another important note. The uniformity of the flow distribution is created by reducing the diameter of the holes at the inlet of the collector and at its outlets. So in the photo we see the collector inlet 3/4 "(22mm), and on the outlets 1/2" (16 mm).

This is how a “clean” collector looks like in the photo.

Again, the main advantage of the collector distribution is the uniform distribution of the water flow to consumers. An additional advantage is the ability to control the water supply of each plumbing fixture separately. However, for a private house, due to the peculiarities of the water supply, there are drawbacks of the collector circuit that can override its advantages.

First of all, let's figure out the pressure in the system, which is correctly called the calculation of the required pressure. I wrote about this in some detail Calculation of a surface pump: how to calculate the pump head.

It is according to the calculation of the pressure that the required pump is bought for the source of water supply to the outer part of the water supply of the house.

In this calculation, a large share is made up of losses due to hydraulic resistance of pipes. The chain is obvious, the more pipes, the greater their resistance to flow, the greater the resistance, the more pressure is required, the more pressure, the more powerful (read more expensive) a pump is required to deliver water from the source.

The collector wiring of the water supply system in the house differs from the tee wiring precisely by the large number of pipes in the system. After all, each consumer needs to have a separate pipe, and more often not one (CHS and DHW). That is why, for the collector wiring, an increased water pressure is required.

Hence, the collector wiring of the water supply in the house cannot be used with the selected gravitational water supply scheme. Let me remind you that the gravitational scheme of a water supply system is an independent spreading of water under the influence of gravity from the top point in the house.

In addition, it must be taken into account that the pressure of each section from the collector to the consumer must be added to the calculation of the head. This is insignificant, but still, an increase in the required pressure of the purchased pump.

The increase in pump costs is just the beginning of additional costs for collector piping in the house. The costs will increase for the purchase of water pipes, which will be required an order of magnitude more than in the sequential scheme.

Another minus, already the third. If living in a house is only for the summer, and in winter living on short-term basis, there is another serious disadvantage of using water supply collectors. Every time, leaving the winter dacha. You will have to drain water from each beam of the collector wiring.

I do not want to argue that the collector wiring of the water supply system is not suitable for a private house. You just need to prepare for the high costs of work and take into account the features in the calculations. It is also worth considering one more disadvantage.

With hidden collector piping, you will not be able to make joints on the water supply routes from the collectors to consumers. This means that you are limited in the choice of pipes for the water supply. Polypropylene will not work (joints). Copper won't do - welding. Polyethylene in the house is ugly. Only metal-plastic pipes remain.

Reinforced-plastic pipes are connected using collet-type compression joints, and the collet connection can only be used in open areas.In addition, the collet connection can be tightened no more than 4 times during the entire service life, and reconnection is possible only after replacing all the seal rings.

Without making agitation, I note that it is possible to achieve the effect of independent pressure in the system, which the collector wiring gives, if we apply a sequential water supply scheme with a decrease in the diameter of the pipes. For example, for 5-7 consumers from the input we lay d32 polyethylene (or d22 copper). After the first branch, we continue the water supply d25 polyethylene (or d15 copper). After the next branch, we continue the water supply d22 polyethylene (or d15 copper). This reduction in pipe diameter creates a manifold effect with an even distribution of flow to consumers.

In fact, professionals rarely use just one plumbing scheme in a house. Usually, a combined water supply scheme is used: collector wiring of a water supply system in a house together with a sequential (tee) scheme. If there are few consumers, then the collector is not installed at all, and shut-off valves are installed near plumbing fixtures.

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  Therefore, each board is carefully examined and measured, the proverb about seven times measure in action.

  The work itself is not tricky, creative, there are several boards and you need to pick them up so that it looks beautiful and there is no overrun. All adjustments to the size and trimming are done with the minimum possible removal of material, just sawed off a bit here, cut a little there with a chisel.

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  Filling the slab with epoxy resin. First pouring resin onto the slab.

  It is necessary to put the slabs on a flat base, for me it is a chipboard sheet, while the base sheet itself should lie strictly horizontally.

  

  
  The use of plumbing manifolds with shut-off taps increases the comfort of using water.

  If the wiring is made with one pipe from the riser, then when several taps are opened, the water pressure in them weakens. As a result, for example, you can burn yourself in the shower if someone turns on the water in the kitchen.

  The distribution manifold eliminates this problem. From the article you will learn in more detail what a collector for water supply is, how to choose it.

  The collector is a device for dividing water into several streams. The principle of operation is the same as for a conventional tee - one stream (pipe) comes out, two come out.The diameter of the inlet of the collector is 20-40 percent larger than the diameter of the outlet, therefore, when several taps are opened, there is no decrease in pressure and water flow.

  The collector divides a large flow of water into several small ones, and the pressure in the taps with increased water consumption is stable due to the fact that the separation of flows occurs in a pipe with a larger diameter than in the traditional scheme. The larger the pipe diameter, the more water passes through it per unit of time.

  The collector circuit of water supply is more comfortable to use than the traditional one, with risers and tees. But the cost of materials for it exceeds this parameter for the traditional one by 8-10 times. Therefore, this scheme is not used with a limited budget for laying a water supply system.

  For the manufacture of collectors used:

  1. Stainless steel.
  2. Brass.
  3. Polypropylene.
  4. Crosslinked polyethylene.

  Collectors are distinguished by the method of pipe fastening:

  1. Threaded (with internal and external threads).
  2. With compression fittings for plastic and multilayer pipes.
  3. With Eurocone.
  4. With solder fittings (for plastic pipes).
  5. Combined (thread on large diameter holes, compression fitting on small diameter, Euro cone or for soldering).

  Collectors are divided according to the number of branches. They are produced with the number of taps from 2 to 6.

  Each manifold is equipped with two fasteners corresponding to the diameter of the water supply pipe and intended for docking. With their help, several blocks are connected into a composite manifold without additional adapters.

  If one block is enough, or special plugs are used to plug the latter.

  Before choosing a collector, determine the number of consumers of cold and hot water (these include taps, toilets, washing machines, dishwashers and other plumbing fixtures). Determine the type of water pipes, the choice of a collector and additional fittings depends on them.

  If the number of consumers does not match the number of taps, purchase several collectors and make one of them. To connect to a supply pipe made of polypropylene or XLPE, purchase manifolds made of these materials. They are cheaper than metal ones, are not inferior in reliability and are easier to install.

  Please note that the polypropylene manifold is connected by soldering, and the polyethylene one - with compression fittings.

  If the water supply system does not have hot and cold water filters, a consumption metering system and a non-return valve, purchase and install them in front of the collector. The location of the devices near the collector, in one inspection hatch, facilitates the repair and maintenance of the water supply system.

  

  Polypropylene manifold with taps

  The cost of collectors depends on the material, configuration and manufacturer and is indicated below:

  • Polypropylene, 6 taps, diameter 40x20 mm, KALDE, for soldering - 1600 rubles;
  • Polypropylene, 3 taps, diameter 40x20 mm, KALDE, for soldering - 480 rubles;
  • Polypropylene, 2 taps, diameter 40x20 mm, KALDE, for soldering - 320 rubles;
  • Brass, without taps, 4 outlets, without taps, threaded connections (incoming internal thread, outgoing external), diameter 1x½ inches, VALTEC - 750 rubles;
  • Brass, without taps, 4 outlets, without taps, all threaded connections (internal thread), with a diameter of 1x¾ inch VALTEC - 700 rubles;
  • Brass, 3 taps, threaded connections (incoming internal thread, outgoing external), diameter 1x½ inches, VALTEC - 1400 rubles;
  • Brass, 4 taps, threaded connections (incoming internal thread, outgoing external), with a diameter of 1x½ inches, ELSEN - 1300 rubles;
  • Stainless steel, 4 taps, threaded connections (incoming internal thread, outgoing external) 3 / 4x1 / 2 inches, FAR - 2,200 rubles.

  

  Having chosen a collector (an assembly of several blocks) for hot and cold water, purchase fittings and additional elements - fluoroplastic sealing material (FUM), rubber gaskets, adapters of the required dimensions.It is advisable to purchase collectors, pipes and fittings from the same manufacturer.

  There are cases when pipes, collectors and fittings from different manufacturers differed in size so much that high-quality assembly was impossible. And I had to buy other fittings. So please check if they are the same size before buying.

  The use of collectors greatly increases the cost of laying a water supply system and increases the comfort of using water. From the article, you learned how to choose collectors, what is necessary for their installation and in what sequence to install collector water supply systems.

  If you are lucky and there is a water supply on the site, then you have probably already wondered how to distribute the pipes so that water flows both to the irrigation hoses and to the washstand / water heater / outdoor shower. Of course, the main thing is that the system is not cumbersome, the hoses can be easily removed, and nothing flows past.

  Polypropylene pipes come to the rescue. They and all the fittings for them are cheap, they are perfectly commutated, and installation does not require special skills. Fast, clean, tidy.

  The first thing to do is go to the store and fork out for fittings and a manifold:

  

  These are tees, couplings with various threads (internal and external), hose fittings, tees, crosses. We buy what we need, but with a margin.

  In the photo in the upper right corner there is a manifold for two valves. There are also more valves on sale, but I took two, the rest, if necessary, I will deliver myself.
  A 20x40 manifold means that the outputs from it are connected to the 20th pipe (analog 1/2), and the body itself is oriented towards a pipe with a diameter of 40. Since I do not have a 40th pipe in the water supply, I took two 2x40 adapters.

  You will also need pliers for cutting polypropylene pipes and the actual pipe segment, with parts of which you will weld various fittings to the manifold.

  

  And of course soldering iron for polypropylene pipes (also popularly called "welding machine") with various attachments, and in our case these are 20 and 40:

  

  

  Second - we estimate on the table how many outputs there will be on the collector, and what they will be.

  We cut from the pipe with a pipe cutter various sections-bends, lay out couplings and adapters.

  We heat the soldering iron, start soldering:

  

  Only when heated, it is necessary to keep the pipe evenly, and just insert it evenly, even screw it a little, into the fitting to be welded. Beforehand, of course, it is better to practice, since all this polypropylene good is not expensive.

  Further, the step-by-step assembly of my manifold for two hose fittings (up to the manifold I will have a valve with an adjustable water pressure) and various backup outlets (one was sealed with a plug):

  

  

  

  And so, my collector has an entrance (I made a little obliquely so that it would be more convenient to screw it into the pipe) with an external thread, two exits with valves to the watering hoses (metal fittings 20-1 / 2 are screwed into the coupling) and an exit to another pipe ( female thread) + side welded outlet (for the future for one more valve).

  An example of connecting garden (watering hoses) at a summer cottage:

  

  And more examples of the use of polypropylene soldering in the country.

  

  

  

  Nozzle for a hose of any shape (in this example, for filling a tank that is at a height):

  Collector wiring of water supply in an apartment: distinctive features and do-it-yourself procedure

  

  Very often, apartment owners prefer to independently carry out the collector wiring of the water supply.

  This allows them to significantly reduce the financial costs of work, as well as to do everything as it is convenient for them.

  

  With a closed water distribution system, all the main elements should be accessible. This procedure can be carried out in several ways:

  It is worth noting that the closed method is distinguished not only by increased labor intensity, but also makes it possible to save space in the room. This is especially true when it comes to small bathrooms.

  But it is worth remembering that if this method is chosen, then the laying of detachable connections should be carried out exclusively in an open form.

  At the same time, one can immediately note the main disadvantages of the closed method:

  • the inability to conduct a preventive inspection of the pipes in order to inspect them from the state;
  • the need to break the walls in order to carry out repairs in the event of a leak and, as a result, the need for further repairs.

  As for the open method, its only drawback is a decrease in free space in the room, as well as changes in its appearance.

  But the advantages include:

  • low labor intensity of installation, which has a positive effect on the speed of its implementation;
  • the ability to see the leak in time and eliminate it;
  • ease of repair at any site;
  • the ability to improve the system in use.

  

  Wiring from metal-plastic pipes In order to correctly install the water supply system in your apartment with your own hands, it is advised to use either metal-plastic pipes or purely plastic ones.

  As for the use of steel or copper options, it is better to refuse them, because to work with them you need not only skill, but also additional traumatic tools to cut, weld and bend.

  Reinforced-plastic pipes are very easy to use for installation and at the same time they are durable. But their main disadvantage is the inability to use it in a closed way. (You can read how to properly connect metal-plastic pipes in this article).

  At the same time, they remain the best option for creating a water supply system. No deposits appear on their walls during use, and a sufficiently low thermal conductivity makes it possible to use such pipes to provide hot water supply.

  Of the whole variety of plastic pipes, polypropylene pipes are considered the best in terms of price / quality ratio. For soldering polypropylene pipes, a special "soldering iron" is used, which is very easy to learn to use.

  

  First of all, it is necessary to correctly draw up a wiring diagram for the future system.

  It itself assumes that all pipes will be connected to the manifold through special ball valves.

  This makes it possible to carry out repairs on the damaged area without overlapping all the others. Also, this scheme allows you to evenly distribute the pressure in the system between all devices. But at the same time, the price of this system is very significant, and the distribution link itself also takes up a lot of space.

  On paper, it is necessary to draw not only the wiring diagram, but also all, even seemingly insignificant points, which include:

  • installation location, as well as the dimensions of the plumbing;
  • the exact length and position of all pipes;
  • places of turns, as well as bending angles of pipes;
  • where the water filters and meters will be located;
  • the maximum possible diameter of communications in each place;
  • number of fittings.

  All work on creating the wiring of the water supply system in the apartment has the following sequence:

  1. First of all, emergency valves must be installed on the riser.
  2. Further, meters are mounted, as well as water filters.
  3. The next step is to install a manifold, after which ball valves are mounted at the outputs.
  4. All plumbing fixtures are now connected.
  5. The last stage is to check the entire system for operability.

  If the water supply distribution is created in a new building or in an ordinary apartment, where the entire system is being completely replaced, then it will not be difficult to do everything with your own hands.

  It is worth noting that in this case, you can save your money quite well. And in order to increase the overall reliability of the system, it is necessary to minimize the number of joints, connections and even small bends.

  

  So that in the event of a leak it is possible to quickly turn off the water, emergency taps are installed near the entrance of the pipe from the main riser.

  Before starting their installation, the water on the mains is shut off, and then a coarse filter is installed.

  It is recommended to install the filter so that it can be easily replaced if necessary.

  

  The reducer should be selected based on its capabilities and network pressure indicators. The main function of this device is to stabilize the voltage supplied to the consumer.

  Its installation is advisable in cases where the water pressure in the system exceeds the allowable for plumbing fixtures.

  It is advisable to make a special drain through which the excess will drain when the pressure is much higher than the normal level.

  The installation process has certain rules:

  • the pressure regulator pressure gauge must be mounted so that it is vertical;
  • during installation, it is worthwhile to provide for special shut-off valves;
  • you need to take into account the designations on the body of the device, which indicate in which direction the water should move.

  Read the article on how to lay water pipes in the house here.

  

  Usually such devices have only four pins. That is why, in order to connect a significant number of devices at the same time, you will need several such devices at once.

  In this case, it is worth installing a separate ball valve for each device so that when one is turned off, the rest can work in the same mode.

  After that, the system is tested for leaks and defective areas, and if any are found, it is worth shutting off the water and redoing a specific area. If everything is fine, then you can start using it.

  Watch the video in which the specialist reveals in detail the important points that arise during the installation of the collector wiring of the water supply pipes in the apartment:
  

  

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