In detail: do-it-yourself repair of a starter retractor relay on an Opel Vectra a from a real master for the site my.housecope.com.
Are you here "Forum of fans of Opel Vectra A" Conversational Forum (stupidly flood and indulge) "Solenoid relay from 2108 to the BOSCH starter
And now on Friday, do not start. The relay goes off and the starter does not turn. On examination, a broken power wire from the starter was found (rotted, hardened and broken off by vibration). It would seem a trifle, but the nut cannot be unscrewed without turning the retractor and simple restoration of the break leads to the repair of the starter. There was nothing to be done in the cold to remove the starter, the retractor, of course, broke down completely during dismantling.
When removing the retractor from the starter, another trouble emerged: the copper bus running from the retractor to the brushes crumbled into dust - the Salt did its job.
In the store, I picked up a retractor relay from a VAZ 2108 starter for 400 rubles in size and mounting holes, but a similar copper bus was not found on sale.
Video (click to play). So, the starter began to work 1 time after 10. Disassembled, cleaned, oiled, assembled. I found out that the plastic clip had crumbled - but, in fact, as long as it will live. I didn’t pick out the retractor - it was not separable. The retractor clicks like a clock, but the contact penny inside it must have burnt out and the starter does not close.
Question1: Can it be disassembled? Maybe it's worth a retractor with a grinder around the perimeter, clean it up and scald it later? is there any chance that it will work? someone picked it?
Question 2: how much will the retractor cost?
His data: BOSCH 0331 303 125-625 like so, copied from the photo. Starter: BOSCH 0 001 108 079. Machine - Vectra A, engine E18NVR.I am attaching a photo (shit for quality) 🙂 The current after cleaning the battery sat down on the camera 🙁
Modified: LeoS, 26 Oct 2010 - 10:51Does the starter turn but does not engage or does not turn at all?
If it twists but does not cling, then 90 percent that it is not a retractor and the bendix is checked very simply, it is clamped in a vice and through a chisel on it with a hammer if it turned in the opposite direction, then it’s for sure. it was the same starter grabbed from 5 to 10 th then 20 times. on cold it is better on hot just scrolling into engagement did not enter. the plastic clip was also cracked, the master said that it was not critical, but since it cost 70 UAH, I changed it and at the same time the brushes were soldered to me for new ones too. as a result: bendix 150 plastic mask 70 brushes 50 work 70. Now the starter will be enough for another 20 years!the retractor just check to connect the light bulb and see whether it lights up or not when it is triggered.
maybe it does not work only because the contact group on the ignition switch is buggyThere, after the contact group, a relay is connected to unload it. Symptoms: the retractor clicks, and the starter does not even jerk. Those. according to my logic, it just clings, but does not twist at all. Better enough for a hot one. Won today on the cold (the rate of movement is less than 80) from 3-5 times, on the hot from 1-3. I sin only on the retractor.
PS: and about the light bulb - ATP for advice! I didn't realize it - it's simple and comfortable 🙂
In this article, we will show you how to check the starter solenoid relay for troubleshooting and consider how to fix them.
The car starter is a traction electric motor, due to which the crankshaft is unwound to further start the power plant.
The unwinding is carried out by means of a gear mounted on the starter rotor, which at the time of starting has a gear engagement with the flywheel rim.
But the engagement between the starter gear and the flywheel is only needed until the power plant starts up.
If the engagement were constant, the starter would fail very quickly.
Therefore, a retractor relay is included in the design of the latter, through which the starter gear is brought into engagement with the flywheel during engine start-up and disengaged after starting.
The retractor relay is combined with the starter relay, while this device is not structurally complicated, which ensures its reliability in operation.
But nothing is eternal, therefore, and it can also fail, although this does not happen often.
There are not so many malfunctions that can occur with this element, but if they do occur, it is often impossible to start the motor or it is very difficult.
Faults that can occur with a solenoid relay are:
- Deterioration of its elements;
- Burnout of contact plates installed in the housing cover;
- Breakage or burnout of the relay coil winding;
- Anchor stuck.
The appearance of these faults can result in:
- Failure of the starter when starting;
- Weak starter speed, which is unable to spin the flywheel sufficiently;
- Continuing to work it even after starting the motor.
To understand how to identify a malfunction, first you need to understand the design and principle of operation of the retractor relay, as well as the starter relay, since they are located in the same housing.
So, there is a body, inside of which there are two coils - the retractor and the retention one.
On the one hand, the body is covered with an ebonite or plastic cover. This cover has three terminals on the outside for connecting the wiring.
One of the terminals is designed to connect the "positive" wire from the battery, the second is to supply electricity to the starter motor, and the third is to connect the relay to the ignition switch.
On the inner side of the cover there are two positive terminal plates.
Schematic diagram.
Inside the housing with coils there is an armature, spring loaded on one side, and a starter relay rod.
On the outside, an eyelet is made on the anchor, with which it engages the bendix plug with the gear.
It all works like this: when the engine is not running, the anchor of the retractor relay is pushed out of the case due to the action of the spring on it. The same spring holds the bendix with the pinion through the fork in the non-engaging position.
When the ignition key is turned to the start position, the solenoid relay is activated first.
The electrical energy supplied to the solenoid relay coils creates a magnetic field inside the case.
This field acts on the armature, and it, overcoming the force of the spring, enters the body, after which the retractor coil turns off and ceases to create a magnetic field, but in the retracted position the armature is held by its magnetic field by the holding coil.
In this case, the armature pulls the fork, and that, in turn, moves the bendix forward along the rotor shaft, and its gear engages with the flywheel crown.
The armature, entering the inside of the case, pushes the rod of the starter relay, and, shifting, closes the contact plates of the positive terminals together.
Electricity from the battery is supplied to the brushes of the starter motor, and its rotor begins to rotate. And since the gear has already entered into engagement, the rotor begins to rotate the flywheel.
After starting the power plant and turning the key back on the ignition lock, the power to the holding coil stops, its magnetic field disappears and the armature leaves the housing under the influence of a spring.
At the same time, it disengages the bendix through the plug, and stops acting on the relay rod. That, in turn, leaving, opens the contact plates, and the starter is completely turned off.
It is not so difficult to troubleshoot a traction relay.It should be noted that its operation is accompanied by a click - this is the result of the armature being pulled in, and the gear engaging.
When turning the key, this click is clearly audible. So, the absence of a click may indicate a break in the coils, lack of power, jamming of the armature in one position.
If, when turning the ignition key, a click is heard, but the starter itself does not start or starts, but turns very slowly, this may signal that the contact plates are burning.
Continued operation of the starter after starting the power plant will be accompanied by a characteristic buzzing sound.
It is possible that the armature is stuck in the retracted position, and it cannot come back, so it keeps the bendix gear in engagement and continues to close the contact plates.
It is not so difficult to check the performance of this element. Moreover, you can check it without even removing the starter from the car. For example, let's take a VAZ-2110 car.
So, the starter on this car does not work. First you need to check the wiring going to it for a break.
If everything is in order with the wiring, you need to find out if the traction relay is triggered at all.
To do this, you can ask someone to turn the ignition key, and listen to yourself if there is a click. If it is absent, it is faulty and you need to change it.
If there is a click of operation, but the starter itself does not turn, it is possible that the relay does not work due to burning of the contact plates.
You can check whether this is so with a regular screwdriver. The terminal coming from the ignition switch is disconnected from the relay.
Next, a screwdriver closes the terminal coming from the battery with the terminal going to the starter - a direct transfer of electricity to the electric motor is obtained, bypassing the relay. If it works, you need to look for the reason in the relay.
You can also check the voltage going to the starter with a multimeter, but this will rather make it clear if the problem lies in the starter or in the wiring and battery.
To do this, a multimeter is connected to the positive terminal of the solenoid relay, to which voltage is supplied from the battery. Connect the other negative lead of the multimeter to ground.
Next, someone has to turn the ignition key to the start position. The voltage on the display of the multimeter should correspond to 12 V.
If it is lower, it is possible that the battery is simply discharged and its energy is not enough to start the engine, but at the same time its charge is enough to trigger the relay, but there is not enough energy to rotate the rotor.
The solenoid relay is not repairable, and in the event of a malfunction, it is simply replaced.
The only thing that can be changed from him is the anchor. Replacing this element with a VAZ-2110 is a simple operation, it is more difficult to remove the starter itself from the car.
For replacement, you will need to dismantle the starter from the car. To do this, the car is driven into a pit, since it can only be reached from below. If the car has a crankcase protection, then it is removed first.
Next, you need to disconnect all the wiring going to the starter. To remove it, you need to unscrew the two nuts of its fastening, after which it is carefully pulled out of the seat.
Already on the removed starter, the two bolts of the retractor relay are unscrewed, and it is removed, while the anchor together with the spring remains on the starter, since it is hooked onto the fork with its eyelet.
Before installing a new element, the old anchor is removed from the plug, and a new one is installed in its place.
Next, the new relay is put on the starter and tightened with the mounting bolts. To consolidate the material covered, we recommend that you watch a training video on how to repair and find malfunctions of the starter retractor relay.
Starter Solenoid Relay Is an electromagnet that performs two functions in the ignition system. The first is to bring the starter bendix gear to the flywheel ring gear. The second is its return to its original position after starting the engine. A breakdown of the solenoid relay threatens the engine simply won't start... There are not many reasons for relay failure. In this material, we will try to describe the signs and causes of breakdowns, as well as diagnostic and repair methods.
Solenoid relay with core
Before proceeding directly to the malfunctions and methods of their elimination, it will be useful for car owners to know the starter retractor relay device and how it works. It should be noted right away that the mechanism is a classic electromagnet, consisting of two windings (holding and retracting), a circuit for connecting it to the starter, as well as a core with a return spring.
At the moment the ignition key is turned, the voltage from the battery is supplied to the windings of the solenoid relay. This creates an electromagnetic field that moves the core located in its housing. That, in turn, compresses the return spring. As a result, the opposite end of the “fork” is pushed towards the flywheel. In this case, the gear, connected to the bendix, is squeezed out until it meshes with the flywheel crown. As a result of engagement, the contacts of the built-in starter switching circuit are closed. The retraction winding is then disconnected, and the core remains in a fixed position with the holding winding operating.
The scheme of the solenoid relay
After the ignition key turns off the engine, voltage is removed from the solenoid relay. The armature returns to its original position. The fork and bendix mechanically connected to it disengage from the flywheel. Thus, a malfunction of the starter retractor relay is a critical failure, due to which it is impossible to start the engine.
In addition to the previous point, we present to your attention starter solenoid circuit... With its help, it will be easier for you to understand the principle of operation of the device.
The pull-in winding of the relay is always connected to “minus” through the starter. And the holding winding goes directly to the battery. When the relay core presses the working plate against the bolts, and a “plus” is supplied to the starter from the battery, then a similar “plus” is supplied to the “minus” output of the retraction winding. Because of this, it turns off, and the current continues to flow only along holding winding... It is weaker than the retractor, but it has sufficient strength to constantly hold the core inside the housing, which ensures uninterrupted operation of the motor. The use of two windings can significantly save battery power when starting the engine.
External signs of a breakdown of the starter solenoid relay include the following aspects:
- When turning the key in the ignition no action occurs on starting the engine, or starting is possible only after several attempts are made.
- After starting the engine, the starter motor continues to rotate at high speed. By ear, this can be determined by the strong hum of the mechanism.
A malfunction in the operation of the relay is one of the reasons that the car does not start, and there may be several reasons for its breakdown:
- failure (burnout) inside the relay of the contact plates (popularly referred to as “dimes”), a decrease in the area of their contact, “sticking”;
- breakage (burning) of the retraction and / or holding winding;
- deformation or weakening of the return spring;
- short circuit in the pick-up or holding winding.
How to check the starter solenoid relay with a multimeter
If you find at least one of the listed signs, then the next step in eliminating the breakdown will be a detailed diagnosis.
There are several methods for checking a solenoid relay. Let's break them down in order:
- Relay triggering can be determined quite simply - at the moment of starting there is a clickproduced by a moving core. This fact speaks about the serviceability of the device. If there is no click, then the starter retractor relay does not work. If the retractor clicks, but does not turn the starter, then the likely reason for this is the burning of the relay contacts.
- If the retractor relay is triggered, but at the same time a kind of rattling is heard, then this indicates faults in one or both relay coils... In this case, the starter retractor relay can be checked using an ohmmeter by measuring the resistance of its windings. It is necessary to pull out the core and the return spring from the housing, and then check the resistance between the windings and “ground” in pairs. This value should be within 1.3 ohms. After that, insert the core without a spring, close the power contacts and measure the resistance between them. This value should be 3.5 Ohm (the value depends on the specific relay). If the measured value is lower than the indicated numbers, then we can talk about a short circuit in the circuit and the failure of the windings.
Worn relay contact plates
On many modern machines, the solenoid relay is non-separable. This is done for two reasons. First, this increases the reliability of the mechanism and its durability due to mechanical protection from external factors. The second is that in this way automakers want to get more profit from the sale of their components. If your car has just such a relay, then the best way out in this case is only to replace it. Write down the brand of the relay, its technical parameters, or better, take it with you, and go to the nearest store or to the car market for a similar new one.
However, some car owners carry out their own repairs. But at the same time you need to know how to disassemble starter retractor relay... If the relay is collapsible, then it can be repaired. In the case of non-separable repairs, it is also possible, but in a small volume. In particular, when "nickels" burn, improve and clean the contact. If one of the windings is burnt out or “short-circuited”, then such relays, as a rule, are not repaired.
For further work, you will need a flat-blade screwdriver, as well as a soldering iron, tin and rosin. Disassembling the relay begins with the fact that it is necessary to pull the core out of it. After that, two are unscrewed, which hold the top cover, where the contacts of the coils are located. However, before removing it, it is necessary to unsolder the mentioned contacts. Wherein it is not necessary to unsolder both contacts... Usually, to get to the “nickels”, it is enough to unsolder only one contact and lift the lid on one side.
Disassembly and repair of the solenoid relay
Repair of the retractor relay VAZ 2104
Next, you need to unscrew the bolts holding the "dimes" from the upper side and get them out. If necessary, you need to revise them. That is, clean them with sandpaper in order to get rid of carbon deposits. A similar procedure must be performed with their seats. Using a locksmith tool (preferably a flat-blade screwdriver), clean the seat, removing dirt and carbon deposits from it. Relay housing is assembled in reverse order.
Disassembly and assembly of a collapsible relay is similar. To do this, you need to unscrew the stud bolts and disassemble its body. This will take you to the inside of the device. Revision work is carried out in the same way as the above algorithm.
Let us briefly touch on the retractor relays used on VAZ cars. They are divided into four types:
- for non-gear starters of the VAZ 2101-2107 models ("Classic");
- for non-gear starters of the VAZ 2108-21099 models;
- for VAZ gear starters of all models;
- for AZD starter gearboxes (used in models VAZ 2108-21099, 2113-2115).
In addition, as mentioned above, they are divided into collapsible and non-collapsible. Older models are collapsible. New and old are interchangeable.
For VAZ cars, retractor relays are produced by the following enterprises:
- Plant named after A.O. Tarasov (ZiT), Samara, RF. Relays and starters are produced under the KATEK and KZATE trademarks.
- BATE. Borisov plant of automotive electrical equipment (Borisov, Belarus).
- Kedr company (Chelyabinsk, RF);
- Dynamo AD, Bulgaria;
- Iskra. Belarusian-Slovenian enterprise, whose production facilities are located in the city of Grodno (Belarus).
When choosing one or another manufacturer, it is necessary to take into account that the most high-quality and widespread brands are precisely “KATEK” and “KZATE”. Also remember that if an AZD starter is installed on your car, then “native” relays produced at the same enterprise are suitable for them. That is, with the products of other factories they are not compatible.
The starter retractor relay is a simple device. but its breakage is critical, as it will not allow the engine to start. Even an inexperienced car owner with basic plumbing skills can check and repair the relay. The main thing is to have the appropriate tools at hand. If the relay is non-separable, we still advise you to replace it, since, according to statistics, after the repair is completed, its service life will be short. Therefore, if the solenoid relay does not work in your car, buy a similar device and replace it.
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gizdra 01 Aug 2011
here is the second question. how to get rid of a suspicious sound when you turn on the wipers?
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gizdra 01 Aug 2011
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gizdra 01 Aug 2011
I'll try it tomorrow! thanks a lot!
went to the master, and here is the verdict (my starter is not repairable because the anchor is broken up) 2500r. and I have not a new but very good gear starter VALEO. And it turned out to be unrealistic to find an anchor for me!
Edited by Igor (2011-02-08 09:55:05)
- starter brushes.
the situation is similar for that winter!some kind of horror
, and the first one to hit the starter was not 906leka?
Edited by vitya (2011-02-08 14:34:52)
Edited by Flex (2011-02-08 18:12:00)
Is not a fact. Somehow on s16nz there was a similar situation. I foolishly bought another retractor, but when I removed the starter, the retractor turned out to be good. The problem was the brushes.
There is such a cunning system that minus the retractor takes it through the brushes. Therefore, there are no brushes - the retractor does not plow.See the brushes))) - the main thing is that the “anchor” is not a khan!
- take off - quickly))) in the freezing cold - and run home)))
- pomnitsa went that winter - comrade here to help one. Bring benzy!))))
- bring it)))
- drowned out - and when it was necessary to go - it did not start)))
- it was already entomEdited by vitya (2011-04-01 21:14:45)
Yes she
I will not argue, but according to the sink, the retractor takes a minus from the mass to turn on, and the plus from the side of the ignition lock, when the retractor is triggered, closes the so-called pyataks (power contacts), and the starter turns directly. Correct if, what is wrong
The starter retractor relay has died. 87 OmegaA C20NE.
Can anyone tell, show, help solve this problem.
How can it be repaired? And the most important question. how to remove the starter there?the starter can be removed easily using a key for 17 and 19 (used caps). First, disconnect the battery, no one needs the fireworks under the hood. For reference: the starter motor is located under the intake manifold, secured with two bolts, one on the bulkhead side and the other on the engine side. We disconnect the relay wire and the main cable and calmly begin to unscrew. The main thing is to rip off the bolts (very inconvenient). After some torment, the starter is in your hands and you can try working directly from the battery to more accurately find out the cause of the failure. Regarding the repair of the starter, I’ll say this: My dear stood, no matter how much I tried to repair it, it didn’t really work anyway, it got to the point that the fastening of the brushes rotted and the bendix began to slip, spat on it and bought a new one, it cost 3600. Since then, about the problem with the starter forgot bye.
The starter retractor relay has died. 87 OmegaA C20NE.Can someone tell, show, help solve this problem. How can it be repaired? And the most important question. how to remove the starter there? I would be very grateful for your help. The car stands at the corner of Ligovskiy and bypass.
if it does not twist from the ignition key, try to connect two contacts on the retractor, for this: 1. turn on the handbrake (ignition is on) 2. put it on neutral. 3. you open the hood, on the left hand at the bottom of the engine you find a starter on the starter retractor (cylinder with a diameter of 50mm) on the retractor three contacts - the upper left (thick) right upper (thin), and one at the bottom is also large. 4. you need to bridge the two upper ones - thick and thin, I did it with a screwdriver, of course very carefully! If it turns, then turn off the throttle cable - it will start. That was exactly how it was for me. I started it for a long time, if the key did not work, and then I put the starter relay there (directly on the retractor), now everything is normal!
Modified: turist, 06 Aug 2008 - 14:26I did it with a screwdriver, I have been driving this way for 2 weeks. ))) put the starter relay there (directly on the retractor) a little more in detail, if possible. )))
Modified: yog, 17 October 2008 - 21:14
retracting-expensive? from 420 p. not original.
Video (click to play). On the existential found only the original, from 1200 re.
